This episode of the Tips for Teachers podcast is proudly supported by Arc Maths
You can download an mp3 of the podcast here.
Charlie Burkitt’s tips:
- Be clear and follow through (04:20)
- Enjoy the kids’ company (23:40)
- Ask the whole class questions (38:35)
- Develop systematic revision (55:09)
- Study the teachers you respect (1:04:32)
Links and resources
- My now infamous interview with Dani Quinn can be found here
- You can find out more about Michaela Community School here
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Watch the videos of Charlie’s tips
Podcast transcript
Craig Barton 0:01
Hello, my name is Craig Barton and welcome to the tips for teachers podcast. The show that helps you supercharge your teaching one idea at a time. Each episode I invited guests from the wonderful world of education to share five tips for teachers to try both inside or maybe even outside of the classroom. With each tip, the challenge is always to ask yourself, what would I have to do or change to make this work for me, my situation and my students, experimentation and frustration may follow, but hopefully something good will come out of it. Now remember to check out our website tips for teachers.co.uk, where you’ll find all the podcasts as well as the links resources and audio transcriptions from chapter seven. Better still, you’ll also find a selection of video tips, some taken directly from the podcast and others recorded by me. Now these videos could be used to spark discussion between colleagues maybe in a department meeting a twilight insight, or even just a cosy Friday nights in by the TV. Now just before we dive into today’s episode, a quick word of thanks to our lovely sponsors, because this episode of the tips for teachers podcast is so proudly supported by our Maths. Maths is a fantastic app designed to help your students remember all the maths content at key stages three and four. It’s built around research into how memory works. Specifically blocks work on the power of retrieval practice and the Spacing Effect. ensuring students don’t just practice what they’ve just studied, but are regularly exposed to content they have encountered days, weeks and months before. If you want to find out more just simply search arc maths and mentioned my name. And remember that’s art with a C and not a cat. Okay, back to the show. Let’s get learning with today’s guests. The wonderful Charlie Burkett. Now you may not be aware of who Charlie is. Charlie is the current head of maths at Mikayla school yet we’re going controversial. Now longtime listeners of my Mr. Barton maths podcast may remember that a former head of maths at the wonderful Danny Quinn appeared on my show and we had a three hour plus epic conversation about exactly what happens at Mikayla. And I’ll tell you why. As a result, it was all kicking off. There was complaints left right and centre. I even got contacted by the NSPCC who were concerned with what was going on because they’d been copied into a number of tweets. Oh, it was it was mental but I’ll tell you why. It was brilliant for for listening figures downloads went through the roof. So good on Charlie for coming on the show to give us a bit of an update about what’s going on at Makayla in the guise of his five tips. And they’re absolutely fantastic and fascinating. So whether you know a lot about Makayla, whether you have preconceptions or whether you’re coming into this fresh, I’m sure you’ll find this conversation fascinating. So spoiler alert, here are Charlie’s five tips that he shares with me today. Tip one, be clear and follow through to enjoy the kids company. Number three, ask the whole class questions. And that’s my personal favourite because we dive into some strategies above and beyond mini whiteboards. Tip Four, develop systematic revision. And Tip Five, study the teachers you respect. Now as I said at the start, the challenge with any tip is to ask yourself what would I need to do to make this work in my situation in my context, that’s particularly true with tips from a school like Michaela that may be very different in the way it operates to your school. So see what you can make of these. And if you look at the episode description on your podcast player or visit the episode page on tips for teachers dot code at UK, you’ll see I’ve timestamped each of the tips so you can jump straight to the one you want to listen to first. Or if you choose to read listen, you can find straightaway the point that you want to be up to. I’ll shut up now. Enjoy the show.
Well, it gives me great pleasure to welcome Charlie Burkett to the tips for teachers podcast. How are you Charlie?
Charlie Burkitt 4:03
I’m very well. Thanks very much for having me.
Craig Barton 4:06
My pleasure. My pleasure. Now, Charlie, for listeners who don’t know, can you tell us a bit about yourself ideally in a sentence?
Charlie Burkitt 4:12
Sure. So I’m the head of maths, Makayla, have been for the last sort of year and a half.
Craig Barton 4:18
Amazing, brilliant stuff. Right? Let’s dive straight in. What’s your first tip for us today?
Charlie Burkitt 4:23
Tip number one is to be clear and follow through. So you know, just just just for a bit of background, I’m going to try and make the tips, you know, as general as I can. And also just to say that, you know, all of these tips I’ve made mistakes on in the past, I wouldn’t want people to think that, you know, I’m by any means an expert on them or always have been or invented them or anything like that. You know, when I was sitting down to think about these, they’re all things that certainly in the beginning of my teaching career, I went wrong on. And also to say that obviously, as you just heard, I’m the head of maths at Michaela. I’ve been working at Mikayla for a number of years now. My current Sex is very different, I suppose to quite a few people. So just to dive in with the tip, you know, I say my context is different. What I mean by that is that the behaviour of Michaela really is impeccable everywhere. You know, you really need to see it to believe it. And I do recommend people come to visit, you know, you can do that really easily through our website. But when I first saw the school where you really couldn’t believe how the kids were behaving, you know, that they’re just in and out of their lessons there, no sat paying attention to the teacher. And that really was very contrasting with how my previous school experience was. I did teach first before before joining Mikayla. So I know a lot of people will know, you know what that experience is like. And so, you know, my first tip of being clear and following through the reason I’m saying that is because I think that really underpins a lot of the behavioural foundations at the school. And that’s what results in the fantastic behaviour that you see everywhere. Obviously, there’s a lot of detail that goes into the final product, and Mikayla, but that’s one of the main principles. And the kind of order I’m going to do my tips today, I hope goes in order of, you know, a sensible order of if you employ these tips in this order, you can you know, if you do tip number one that leads to tip number two, etc. So, the first one about being clear and following through, is just to say that kids obviously, really, really value clarity, they need to be clear on what the rules are, or they’re not going to be able to follow the rules that you have. And that obviously links in really hugely to consistency as well, the more clear and consistent you can be as a teacher, the more you’re going to see results in the children. And, you know, that is obviously within your own classroom, and also across classrooms, if you’re able to achieve that, you know, maybe within a department or within a school, of course, what we have at Mikayla is all the teachers, you know, following exactly the same rules, which are really clearly laid out to the kids, and following them through, you know, in the same way across all the different classrooms. And that really is the thing that results in you know, the miracle, that is Michaela that I walk around in every day. But where this can apply to people who people might be listening and thinking, Oh, Charlie, you know, what’s the point of you talking about? Makayla, I can’t do anything about that in my own room? Well, I think, you know, there are some fundamentals of what we’re doing that you can apply in your own classroom. Certainly, I remember when I was, you know, in my own room, in that sort of island that you’re, you’re in often in a in a teach first school, you can lay out the kids in the beginning, okay, here are the things that really matter to me, here are the things that I’m going to care about, and I’m going to follow through on, they are much more likely to do those things. So, you know, for me, one of the massive things in the beginning was not being spoken over, you know, I’m sure everyone’s had the experience of desperately trying to teach fractions or, you know, equations or whatever it is, and the kids are just essentially talking over you. And, you know, it’s hard for me to think back to that these days, because it feels so far away, but you know, it did happen. So, you know, in the beginning, it’s, you know, I’m not going to be spoken over, that’s just something that’s not going to happen, you know, in order to build a classroom with mutual respect, we’re all going to make progress, you’re not going to be speaking over me. So that’s the clarity end of it to set that up in the first place. And then following through is then you know, when it happens, when inevitably, kids do speak over you, which will happen, you must, must, must stick to your guns and deliver, you know, whatever sanction you have available to you often, I don’t know, demerits or a warning on the board or whatever it is, or, you know, whatever systems you have available to you, you’ve got to follow through on on that point. And you know, that applies, of course, to behaviour in the classroom, like I’m talking about, but it also applies to homework. Anything really involving the children be super clear. Follow through
Craig Barton 8:53
a little bit, right, let’s dig into this a little bit deeper. Charlie, can you give us an example of a few more of these rules that you would have either ones that are school wide, or ones that are personal to you in your classroom? So we’ve got the don’t talk over me just give us another selection, if that’s
Charlie Burkitt 9:07
okay. Yeah, sure. So I’ll go through some of the ones we haven’t Mikayla because that might give people have flavour for for, you know, how we do things here. So, you know, another one of the big expectations that we that we like to lay out early on is for projection in lessons, what we call projection. So that’s people’s just speaking loudly enough to be heard. And there’s a few levels to why that’s important. Obviously, kids need to speak loudly so that everyone in the room can hear them so that everyone in the room can learn from them and so that you as a teacher can hear them and learn from them, and be able to respond to what they’ve said. But there’s also the low level at which kids should just be learning to speak loudly and confidently in order to be you know, productive members of society when they’re older and to come across confidently and interview and things like that. Now, you know, so we have that expectation. We’re very clear about Every teacher across the school is always speaking about it all the time, you know, you want to project you want to project. So the clarity is absolutely there and the kids get that right from the beginning. And then we will follow through on that, you know, both with the positive and with the negative to be clear, you know, I wouldn’t want people to think that this is all a big negative, oh, you’ve got to speak loudly, or we’re going to the afternoon we’re going to give you demerits. It’s not like that at all. And I’ll come on to that a bit more of that warmth, actually, in a in another tip later. But you know, we will give, you know, on one hand merits for kids speaking really loudly and of course we’ll follow through if kids are kind of persistently not speaking loudly enough, then they might pick up demerits. And, yeah, that’s one more example of where we follow through.
Craig Barton 10:41
Give us one more, Charlie, whilst we’re on a roll with this.
Charlie Burkitt 10:45
Okay, one more, I suppose, you know, it is in a way difficult to pinpoint one because there’s so many we have around the school. Okay, so here’s another easy one. We expect silence in the corridors. I know, that’s a controversial one, sometimes in the world of education. But that’s a nice, again, a nice, obvious, clear one for people to have in their heads. And it’s one of the things that results in, you know, just a school that runs incredibly slickly and it’s really clear, you know, we say to kids, you know, you’re not speaking the corridors, they walk in, you know, very orderly silence single files their next lesson, if they were in the corridors to turn around and speak to the person behind them, or in front of them, or just do, you know, do something silly and a bit unprofessional, then we and we will follow through on that, you know, we have duties all around the school, to make sure that happens, obviously, this is part of what I’m saying about follow through that there’s no point in having the rule that you must have silent corridors and being really clear about that, if you aren’t then going to follow through on it. And that means, you know, having the kind of prisons around the school with the staff body to make sure that those rules are followed. And you know, the other the positive side of that is that you then have corridors where not only the pupils are behaving and being silent and moving to their lessons in an orderly way. But you also have this kind of lovely kind of joyous atmosphere where all the pupils are saying and after do miss answer to the teachers, as they go past, you have a little bit banter with the kids, you’re kind of hiring them along. And it’s this kind of lovely, very warm, positive atmosphere that’s created. But the foundation of that atmosphere is that actually we will follow through on the rules that we’ve set out.
Craig Barton 12:28
This is great, Charlie, I want to dig into these two aspects, the clarity and the follow through if that’s okay. So an error I’ve made, is I go big on these classroom expectations first lesson in September. So this is how the classroom is going to be, and so on and so forth. And maybe if I’m feeling particularly organised, I’ll stick up some kind of poster of these are the kinds of ways that we behave in this classroom and so on, or maybe the school has got us, you often see this in schools, or behaviour expectations kind of poster or list that goes at the front of every classroom or somewhere in the classroom. But inevitably, as September ticks on into October, November, these rules, they start to kind of, we expect a more kind of trickled down version of them, and you start to let things go with certain kids and certain classes and so on. And I can feel it happening. And I know it’s wrong. And it just just happens all the time. So I’m interested first in this clarity aspect, particularly that that that second rule that you explained about the projection, I mean, that’ll strike a lot of people as well. That’s an interesting one. Until I’d spoken to Danny Quinn, I’d never heard of that as kind of kind of a rule. But I guess this applies to all rules. How do you do get that clarity? Is it a combination of you modelling it? Does the kids have access to it written down anywhere? Do you practice it? How’d you? How’d you get that clarity?
Charlie Burkitt 13:46
Sure, yeah. So on a whole school level you might have heard before about the boot camp that we run at the start of school, when you’re sevens joins us. Tell
Craig Barton 13:54
us about that, Charlie? Sure. Yeah. So
Charlie Burkitt 13:56
I mean that that’s a huge part of the successful running of the school, to be honest with you. So in the very first week of September, we have all the New Year sevens coming into school. And we have none of the other pupils arriving at school yet, except the year elevens, who are in for their revision for their GCSEs. But what that means is we have, you know, almost an empty building, and lots and lots of members of staff. And importantly, they’re really experienced staff on hand to make sure that the sevens are inducted into the systems we haven’t Mikayla. Now that serves the kind of dual benefit of not only inducting, the year sevens, but also inducting new staff that we have to come join the school. So often, the new staff, of course, aren’t used to the systems, they aren’t used to the rules. They aren’t used to how to deliver a lesson in a Kaler way because there is such a particular style. And it’s a style that I think really works. So that’s a chance for the kids, the sevens and the new teachers, both to be inducted into that culture and into all the systems and rules. And you know, it’s a really amazing sight every year you know, I’ve gone through this have a number of times now that the people’s near seven or they arrive to us on that first day. And honestly, they’re a bit of a ramble, you know. So they, their behaviour is kind of all over the place, they kind of don’t know what they’re doing, they’re walking in order for directions, they, you know, they can’t look us in the eye and greet us with full sentences, and they, and they don’t speak loudly enough for us to hear. And then they generally have, you know, bad habits in terms of their concentration, they can’t, they don’t look at the teacher throughout the lesson. Just all not all manner of bad habits, you know, you can imagine the picture. And then the real miracle, and this is amazing is that within a few days, and certainly by the end of the week, that pupils have just transformed, you know, they just have that their habits are miles better than they weren’t there when they arrived. And you know, they’re speaking loudly, they can look you in the eye, they’re speaking in full sentences, they pay attention in lessons, they’re behaving themselves around the school, they’re orderly, and they’re happier. That’s, that’s the crazy, crazy thing, they are so much happier for it, you know, they arrive, kind of, I suppose, a bit nervous, and that’s natural, but just generally seeming upset, you know, and they’re just so much happier for the order that we provide. And, you know, that’s generated through obviously an amazing push from all the staff here on, you know, the consistency. And as I’m saying, that clarity and the follow through and all the other things that make Michaela great and that, you know, there’s so much I could speak for hours, but I won’t.
Craig Barton 16:25
So, if we just drill it on this projection one, then how are you teaching the kids to project or use? Are you kind of saying this is the kind of level that we speak out now? Can you try you try you try? And is it written down anywhere? I know, booklets often play a play a key role in in some of your work.
Charlie Burkitt 16:40
Yeah. So there are bootcamp booklets. So the kids will in that in that year seven boot camp, they’ll have that written on paper in front of them at some point, but it’s not so much about it being written down on paper, that’s more to remind us to go through it with the kids. But then what will happen is there’s just a culture in the School of we all speak loudly. And you know that that because that is a thread that runs through every single lesson in the building, you can guarantee it, and you know, new staff are inducted into that kind of culture. So it happens, then the kids end up rising to that challenge, you know, so it’s not so much a, here’s how loud speaking now you’re going to do it. Now, of course, there is a bit as a teacher, you will be speaking loudly. And you’ll be saying to the pupils, look how loudly I’m speaking, I’m coming across confidently, this is how to come across confidently as a person, you need to be speaking loudly like this. And you know, the lovely thing is that from the first day or two of bootcamp, there will be pupils in the class who straightaway get that point. And then they start speaking really loudly. And then you can point to x person in the class and say this, this person is doing it well. This is how you do it. That’s a merit love it fantastic dinner Dinner. And you really praise that person. And it just sets that standard for the rest of the class. And they they pretty quickly get the idea of what that looks like. And because it’s happening everywhere, it doesn’t slip. And then it happens like magic.
Craig Barton 17:59
That’s great. And well, let’s turn to the other side, the follow through site, because this is something I’m bad at as well. Because, again, you’re writing names on the board or wherever. And then it’s more work for you. You’ve got to organise maybe the tension or type something up on sims or something like that, and I just can’t be bothered. But I know it’s the wrong thing to do so. So tell me about these follow throughs. You mentioned demerits potentially detentions. Just talk us through how that system works, Charlie, if that’s okay, yeah, of
Charlie Burkitt 18:25
course, you’ve got the systems that are there. And I hope that a lot of people listening to this might have similar systems. You know, these exist everywhere. It’s just essentially a warning, which we call it the Marriott and then a detention after that. And then you have an encore system where the pupils will be sent out of the lesson. If they do that three times. Now that is happening very, very rarely, I have to say in the building. And the reason that is happening rarely is because we know here, not to over rely on those systems, the systems are there to support you. And they’re really, really important. But you also as a teacher, and you know, I’m going to be straying into my other tips here. But you as a teacher, you have to be a source of energy and enthusiasm, and you have to draw the kids in. And there’s an element of performance to teaching that, that you mustn’t miss. And you know, it’s a mistake that I made very much in the early days of my teaching, which is that I thought when I when I heard about Mikayla, I was reading about Mikayla, I thought that it was all and only about the systems. And I pretty quickly realised that actually, there’s so much more to it than that it really is performance you have to be you have to bring some charisma to the table and you have to try and show the kids why you love the subjects and why you love them and and draw them in now to answer your specific question. Of course, if you’re doing all of those performance type things in front of the children and we train new staff at that and you know, people come and this absolutely includes me, people come to the school, not knowing how to teach in the Makayla way, not teaching in a way that you know, is really energetic and purposeful and full of charisma necessarily, you know, so you know, don’t have to come as Mr. Charisma to the school. It’s not like that to I wasn’t that in the least I was Mr. Wooden, if anything, you know, but then, you know, the other staff and Mikayla, they come in, they give you a bit of feedback, you know, which is so useful to hear you get to watch all the other staff teaching in a Mikayla way you slowly get used to what it’s like to teach it. And then before you know it, you’ve you’ve transformed in the way that you teach. And you know, you’re actually engaging the kids on a performance level. But of course, if it comes down to it, you will have to follow those systems, we do follow those systems, and and enforcing them consistently is what it means that we get the excellent behaviour that we do.
Craig Barton 20:40
Got it. Just a couple more on this chart. I could talk to you about this all day because it’s one of I mean, Mikayla fascinates people just just generally, and people have preconceptions about it, and so on and so forth. But I obviously there’s there’s far more to it than the behaviour side. But I think often these the behaviour in the rules is what people kind of latch on to. So I just want to just clear a clear up a couple of things with the with the detentions is, how are they run? Is that is that the person who set the detention runs them? Or are they run centrally? Or within departments? Just how do they run, Charlie?
Charlie Burkitt 21:09
Yeah, they’re run centrally. So after school, there’s detentions that the pupils are kind of read a list of who’s in detention. And then they will go to a centrally run Sr, which is in one of our halls.
Craig Barton 21:21
Got it? That’s great. And my final question is, I’m interested, do you have any rules that are kind of bespoke to your classroom that aren’t kind of universal kind of school governed rules, if that makes sense?
Charlie Burkitt 21:33
No. Interestingly, you know, and I know, maybe some people are thinking, Oh, wow, that’s really, you know, weird or crazy that you would not have any rules in your own classroom that are different to the rest of the school. But the reason for that is because if I had rules in my own classroom, that I thought made sense, and I thought worked, and you know, we’re working for the kids, I’d be buying young Katherine’s door, and I’d be saying, Miss verbal thing, I’ve got a rule that’s working in my classroom, we all need to be doing it, you know, so we have a way we have a vision of what good teaching looks like at the school. And, you know, I think our results have been showing that that is absolutely working. And, you know, you need only visit the school to see that it’s working. Honestly, I knew, you know, I came to visit the school back when it only had up to a year nine here. So there were no results to speak of. But I walked around this school, and I was blown away by what I was seeing absolutely blown away. And that is because there’s a vision of what good teaching should look like. And we all aspire to that vision. And if there were bits and pieces that we thought were wrong in that vision, we just adjust. And that happens all the time. You know, there was a number of years ago, we didn’t do any partner talk in the school, we introduced partner talk. And now that’s a really fundamental feature of all, Mikayla lessons. So we’re always pushing forward, I hope on what we think good teaching looks like I’m really trying to strive for how can we be better? How can we be better? How can we teach the kids more? How can we get them better grades? How can we make them into better people at the end of the day. And so that means that that consistency of vision means now I don’t have extra rules, and I don’t think you would find anyone in the school with extra rules. Now, that’s not to say that if you walk into every classroom, you’re going to see literally identical teaching, of course, you get different styles, you get some people who are you know, one particular way some people who are very sort of maybe sweet and that’s their kind of thing, or maybe some people who are kind of a bit more funny, a bit more of a comedian, a bit more kind of banter. But, you know, you will see bits of all of that in everyone’s teaching and and the rules are the same everywhere.
Craig Barton 23:39
Got it. Fantastic. Right, Charlie? Boss Tip number two, please.
Charlie Burkitt 23:44
Tip number two, I feel like we’ve spoken so long. And tip number one, then I’ll dive into tip number two. Tip number two. Oh, yeah. So this is a really important one it is enjoy the kids company. And what I mean by that is the warmth, the warmth side of teaching, you know, people I’m sure would have heard about warmth strict. And the kind of the first thing I’m talking about there, I guess it’s the strict you know, it’s the it’s that fundamental layer of authority you need to have in a school building, in that the kids will follow the school rules. Now. Once you get that it’s so so important that you have the warmth on top of it otherwise the kids you know that they’ll just be marching around the kind of prison camp and they’re not going to be enjoying themselves and they will not be working hard for you. And everyone’s going to be having just a worse time you know, so it this is something I really miss in the beginning of my teaching career. I thought if only I had the systems they haven’t Mikayla if only I had detentions. If I If only I had centralised detentions then I could just sit back and relax and the lessons would just sort of happened for me and I could just walk in and in a really wouldn’t that way deliver lessons and they would just go well now I’m I’m so sorry to break anyone’s heart who thought the same thing as me any you know, me’s out there right now. Unfortunately Really not unfortunately, fortunately, you know, I’ve come to realise it is the case that we also need to show the kids we love them. And you know, this, this is such a such a wonderful discovery for me and my teaching, because it’s made me enjoy my lessons and my teaching career so much more, being able to have a laugh with the kids being able to show them that you’re on their site, like connecting with them as other human beings having a relationship with them. I used to think and I’m, you know, I’m ashamed to say this. Now, I am ashamed to admit this. But I used to think that relationships was a bit of a dirty words around school, I used to think that people who leaned on their relationships with kids in order to get them to do things, were undermining everyone else, because everyone else was following the systems and they were in some way undermining everyone else. Now, there are subtleties and complications to that that we can get into. But it’s so important that I that I say here, and so that all the me’s out there can hear that you must show the kids, you love them, you must build a connection with them, you must have a laugh with them, you must enjoy their company, because they’ll enjoy your lessons so much more than your classroom and the school will feel like a warmer, more joyous place. And in the end, then this is you know, the utilitarian side of it. And in the end, the kids will work harder, and will get better grades, and it’ll be better for them.
Craig Barton 26:21
Again, this is fascinating this, Charlie, you mentioned warm strips, that’s one of the things that people often latch on to, and say, well, that’s just sounds absolutely ridiculous, is a real contradiction, and so on and so forth. So I’m interested in diving into the practicalities of this because tip one, obviously, you’ve outlined the rules that that exists within the lessons, and so on and so forth. And that can definitely kind of fit into the kind of strict camp there. So how do you get the warmth in lessons to the rules sometimes get in the way of this warmth? For are the rules there to support the warmth? If that makes sense? Oh, yeah,
Charlie Burkitt 26:52
this is the amazing thing about it, the rules actually really enable the warmth, because it’s, I think it’s only when you have that foundation of kind of authority in the room and control of the space and the feeling that the kids are all safe and can trust you and trust that the room is going to be a safe place in which to exist. Then on top of that layer of security and kind of trust and calm, you can build on top of that, or the relationship building stuff. So you know, when you’ve got a room of kids who are just sat, politely looking towards you waiting for you to teach the lesson, that’s the moment at which you can be a bit silly. And you can kind of make a couple of jokes or tease one of the pupils, you know, in a fine way or kind of, you know, sing Happy Birthday to a pupil or put silly glasses on a pupil or all of the all of the silly fun things that we do on top of just normal teaching, to show the kids we love them, that those will happen on top of bedrock of authority and of understanding that we will follow the rules. Now what happens is, their kids, if you’re being silly in front of them and having a laugh with them, they will be laughing along with you safe in the knowledge that it’s not going to get out of control and and people aren’t going to start standing up and throwing things and shouting out and doing all that stuff. Because at the end of the day, we will always follow through with the rules if we start to be silly and loving and warm, and the pupils because you know, they’re real human beings, and this will happen. And they maybe take it too far, they take the joke too far, they start doing something silly, well, then we then we roll it back. And we so actually know the rules or the rules, you know, and of course, we’ll give out demerits, and so on to rein the kids back in a little bit if they start to get out of control. But that’s not to say that you’re afraid to in the first instance, let the grains go just a little bit so that the pupils are enjoying the time in the lesson.
Craig Barton 28:43
Got it? Got it. It sounds tricky to get right, Charlie, again, I can only speak from my experience here. But this kind of given them the freedom to like you can imagine you come in your McCracken a few jokes being a bit silly. So then the kids join in and all of a sudden, it’s kind of bubbling up a bit and then you’ve then you’re in kind of a bit of a tricky position, because it’s almost like you’ve started this process off, you know, with the silliness. And then you’ve got to say, All right, okay, now it’s time to stop. And the kids might be thinking, well, well, you started it. So now we’re just trying to join in and so on, is is it quite tricky sometimes to kind of kind of get this balance? Is it just something that comes with experience?
Charlie Burkitt 29:15
No, it’s certainly tricky. And it’s and it is certainly something that comes with experience. You know, I say, teachers, when they first joined the school, do really struggle to find that balance because people I think when they first come are a little bit on the side of being stricter, actually, and in holding the reins tight and not letting the kids go, you know, even even for an inch. Now, I would say that that is not necessarily a bad strategy. Because it is it is better I would say to err on the side of being in control and purposeful and the lesson going in in a productive academic direction. Rather than just being silly and having a laugh and you know, everything unravelling so our caution with that, and I would say that one way of actually showing the kids that you love Have them and showing them warmth is actually to do the lesson itself as in the content that, you know, for me, it would be maths that I’m teaching in a way that shows that you love your subject and that you love when the kids get it right, and that you’re so happy when they give you the right answer. And you and you’re really enjoying the math, so you’re enjoying your time with them. So to be clear, the warmth that you’re showing doesn’t just have to have to be you being silly and making jokes that that’s part of it, and putting glasses on them and so on and putting wigs on them. That’s part of it. And particularly for the younger kids. That’s a fun thing that I think should exist in education. But you can show them that warmth in a more purposeful way.
Craig Barton 30:42
Got it? Charlie, this question might be a rubbish question. So feel feel free to disregard this. And it’s probably the most obvious question as well, it feels to me that the the kind of warmth of the silliness, I don’t know what the right word is. But it’s kind of one way, in one way kind of the teacher makes the decision that now’s the time, we’re going to kind of be a bit off task, or less focused now feels like the appropriate time where we’re going to be a bit silly and talk and so on. I’m just wondering, is there room for the kind of spontaneity where the kids all you know, maybe it’s the time that they should be quiet, but now actually one of the kid despite something funny, so they’re going to say it, or it’s someone’s birthday, and you don’t know about it, and one of the kids tells you or just those kinds of magical, spontaneous, spontaneous moments. I guess the cliched view of Mikayla will be that they simply can’t happen. Because the kids know that, for example, when you’re modelling, you’re already said, they can’t talk over you, and so on and so forth. So I just wonder, is it very much kind of one way this this warmth? Or is there room for that kind of spontaneity the other way? I don’t know if that makes sense. It
Charlie Burkitt 31:43
doesn’t make sense? No, it’s a good question. I think the thing with this is that what you’re trying to build up with the kids is a sense of, and this is what we want, I think out of all people that are all adults, and at the end of the day, what we’re trying to do for these cases is to raise them up to be, you know, sensible, functioning human adults, you want to try and build up with the kids a sense over time of when is it appropriate to make a joke? And what is an appropriate joke? And you know, so yes, of course you can you can you, you can feed off the kids there in that if they raise that it’s so and so’s birthday or something and you didn’t realise and they’re there, they’re starting the joke, that that is fine. Of course, at the right moment, you know, if you’re in the middle of explaining simultaneous equations, then you don’t want the kids to be interrupting us to tell you something silly, of course. And if that were to happen, we would say, No, now’s not the time kind of thing. But then again, you know, if there’s an appropriate moment, maybe it’s formed time where it’s just a little more relaxed, and you’ve just taken the register. And there is that moment of kind of slightly free time and the kids raise something that is funny, or maybe they come to speak to you in the playground to say something along those lines, then, of course, you’re inviting it, and then you can riff off it and you can play with it. And I think you as a teacher need to be confident to lead the mood of the room and the culture of the room. And if you’re if you feel like the appropriate mood of the room in that moment, is that you can be a bit warmer and and just take your foot off the gas a little bit in terms of being really strict with the kids all the time and getting to see loads of maths, then you need to be a judge of that. And you need to trust your own judgement of that. So if you feel that the kids are taking it too far, or raising a joke at the wrong moment, then then then say, then beat them be the authority in the room and say, You need to dictate dictates the culture of that space. And and the kids should be able to read from your body language, what you’re saying, the moment of the lesson, whether it’s an appropriate moment for that kind of behaviour.
Craig Barton 33:48
Got it. Fantastic. Final question on this one? Charlie, you’ve alluded to it a little bit. How does the warmth play out and showing the kids you love them outside of lessons as what kind of things do you do on kind of break duty form time? And so on to to foster this?
Charlie Burkitt 34:02
Yeah, good question. I mean, this is actually a huge space where you can foster that warmth, because of course, in lessons a lot of the time and you will want to be purposeful. And if you can kind of weave in jokes into your math teaching in a way that, you know, you feel is both productive and getting that relationship then brilliant, but that’s obviously high level teaching. I would say that if you can’t do that in the beginning, and actually all the time, do try and catch the kids in the in the break spaces. You know, for us, there’s obviously break time and then it’s lunchtime. I imagine it’s the same in most schools, at lunchtime, we have basketball happening, we have table tennis happening, I’ll often just hop on, you know, to the table tennis or grab a basketball and just you know, try and aim at the who you know, have have a bit of banter with the kids about scoring, not scoring, whatever happens. Just kind of riff off that a little bit. So yeah, it’s a really great time when when you’re in that slightly more relaxed space to take advantage of that and to show them your human side and to show them that you care about them and you want to enjoy their camp. Honey, you know, which, which was what I started with on this tip. Obviously, there’s also more sort of functional things like we write postcards, for kids who we think are doing particularly well. So you know, in terms of systematising, your warmth, you can think about ways, you know, stickers, stamps, postcards, you know, even marking books were not, but wouldn’t be books in maths from our point of view. But if you’re a subject where you might mark books, or mark essays or mock tests, or whatever it is, that you just you do that in a way, you know that you put a little smiley face on their paper, that’s just one more way to show that you love them, you know, and that’s, that’s what I’m trying to get out here.
Craig Barton 35:42
That’s fantastic. And, Charlie, just before we move on to tip three, I can’t let that little thing you’ve said there in maths, we obviously don’t mark books. If you’re not going to come to mark in a little bit later on. We just tell us just very quickly, what what do you mark in maths because I know most teachers out there will be like, Why is he going on
Charlie Burkitt 35:58
about? Yeah, sure. I mean, we might get derailed here for a good hour. I feel Craig, but I’ll go into it slightly. You might I can’t remember, I did listen to yours. And Danny’s not very long chat you had a number of years ago now. And I think Danny might have spoken about this a little bit. But I’ll just kind of summarise it for those of the listeners that haven’t heard this before. So what we the main thing we mark each week is we mark a quiz that the pupils do in lessons. Now the kind of cycle of that, and I’ll summarise it very, very quickly, because you know, we could go into loads of detail is the pupils do the pupils do a written homework on some maths questions that are partly what we’ve been studying recently, and partly just general revision. They do that on a Thursday night, they bring that in on Friday. And in Friday’s lesson, we go through all those questions, and we make sure the kids understand what’s happening in those bits of maths. And we and we just in general, try and push them their flexibility a bit to make sure they can answer questions that aren’t just the ones in front of them. But around that topic a little bit. They go away over the weekend. And they do a very similar version, really almost identical version of that same homework with the numbers just changed slightly, or the question just changed ever so slightly. But it’s it’s almost the same questions. So they should be able to do it without help can we’ve gone through it on Friday, then they come in on a Monday morning, and they will sit a quiz, which is again, very similar version of the same questions. Now the extent to which it’s similar depends a bit on how old the kids are and their ability. You know, a year seven pupil who has lower ability, their quiz is going to be almost identical to the homework they did. If you have a year 11 pupil whose high ability it might be really quite different, but on the same topics. Now, the main piece of marketing we do is that we’ll take that quiz, and we’ll go mark, we’ll go away. And we’ll mark that in detail. And we produce scores for the pupils. And that’s a way of holding them to account on doing their homework properly. And also doing it it’s just such good practice for the kids constant, constant mini assessments. So they get really used to the idea of you know, you’ve got that piece of paper in front of you, you need those mats, get it out, get it down on paper in a way that you know, is sort of exam style. We will if we have time, and I would say this is not mission critical, but we will look through their homeworks that they’ve done. But the really mission critical bit of marking that we do is that quiz
Craig Barton 38:28
got that was very well summarised, I think, yeah, Danny took about an hour and 40 minutes. So that was really good, Charlie. That’s amazing stuff. Right, Charlie, what is your third tip for us, please?
Charlie Burkitt 38:39
Yeah, sure. So my third tip, this is, um, I mentioned in the beginning that I hope these tips would build on each other. So we’ve got the behaviour, we’ve got the warmth, my next tip is to do with your actual classroom teaching what you’re doing in front of the kids, I think, to try and get the most out of them. Now, I also said this was going to be something that I didn’t do well in the beginning. And that’s certainly true of this one. This tip is to ask the whole class questions. Now I’ll go into what exactly I mean by that. What I mean by this is very high frequency whole class AFL. Now that can be using a number of different bits of AFL, the things we really liked using it. Mikayla are many whiteboards, we use turn to your partner, which is a form of partner talk, we use heads down, hands up, we use coulomb response, I would say those are the main ways that we do it. There are probably others that I’m forgetting. But let me just go briefly into a couple of those. So I’m sure loads of people use mini whiteboards. And they mini whiteboards are a really fantastic way, just to quickly see what everyone’s got in their head. And actually, for the moment, we can just think about many whiteboards when I’m explaining the broader principle here, which is why am I saying to get the whole class answering questions is because you really want to have the whole As proportion of kids possible at any one moment, engaged with the lesson, and any sort of whole class AFLW forces kids to be thinking and participating in what it is you’re doing, if you are constantly asking, and this is 100%, a mistake I’ve made before, if you’re constantly asking just hands up questions, and then choosing pupils, you run the risk of only a few pupils, and in particular, only the pupil you’re asking, really thinking hard about the question you’ve asked. And you also obviously are gathering a bad data set on what the class really are thinking and what they understand. If you speak to one pupil, your data point is one you know that one pupil, you know what they think you don’t know what anyone else in the room thinks. Now whiteboards, which I assume lots of people have used before, are an obvious way of doing this. If you’re asking a question, and all the pupils hold up a board, and this is a bit math specific, I understand in other subjects, it might not be useful, but you can very quickly see, and you’ve got much better data now on what all the classes are thinking. And not only do you have better data on all the classes thinking you forced every single pupil in the room to think and to present an answer. And for us, and Mikayla, that’s huge, because what we have is we have good behaviour. So pupils will sit and they will just appear to be listening. But the pupils, you know, they are real people, and I don’t blame them for this, I’d be the same vibe as them, they get very, very good at just sitting and looking like they’re thinking without doing any thinking at all. So it forces them into thinking forced them into participating. And then they’re getting more out of the lesson. Now whiteboards, I think is a reasonably obvious one. There is also, I mentioned turns your partner partner talk, I’ll just briefly describe that. So we will say to the kids, for example. Let’s just choose a random question, say what is the lowest common multiple here and why tell your partner go? Now what they do is they will turn to the I just hit my coach and hear that they will turn to the person next to them, I got so excited. And they will start speaking straight away. You know, explaining what it is they think and why. And that’s normally the reason I include the and why there is because that is normally a question you’d ask that had a couple of sentences explanation that you want them to express their partner. And then I after just a few seconds, and I must stress this because I feel like in lots of other schools, you would then have the kids talking and talking and talking for ages. We don’t have that it’s very controlled. It’s very sharp, it’s very energetic. So the pupils turn, they speak to each other for just, you know, five, maybe 10 seconds more like five seconds. And then you’re saying right back to me three to one hands up. And the pupils turn back to you. They put their hands in the air, and they’re ready to answer your question straight away. And what that means is, is that you can keep the pace high, you can keep the rhythm of the lesson going, you could not lose focus, but you’ve just had every single pupil in the class, express something to the person next to them. It’s so great for raising the energy of the room. It’s great for getting everyone participating. It’s great for getting the kids expressing their opinions and communicating with one another in a way that’s also controlled and doesn’t derail the lesson.
Craig Barton 43:04
can just kind of just ask on that. So we’ve had a few guests talk about mini whiteboards. But this is the first time we’re really digging into all the forms of whole class assessments. I’m really interested in this the partner talk and this isn’t a stupid question. If they’re just discussing their kind of five or 10 seconds, do you have a protocol of who kind of speaks first? Because I could imagine they’re kind of just shouting at each other trying to try to get in as quick as possible? How does that play out?
Charlie Burkitt 43:27
Yeah, it’s a good question that does vary a bit by the room you’re in. Actually, I would say that there’s no hard and fast rule that we have here. Where we notice that there are pupils who are being kind of deliberately opting out of that partner. And you’ve done well to spot that because that is something that happens, what will tend to do is say, we have in our all of our classrooms that Michaela there’s a window sight and a door side. And what we’ll say is window side, first go or door side first go, you know, and that just, if you’re going to manage the turns, that’s a really good way to do that. It’s not something that we really strictly enforced, but it’s a way of overcoming what you’ve just described.
Craig Barton 44:04
Got it. And just so I can get the logistics of this, right. So they’ve done that, you know, quick quick chat to their partner quick explanation. Then they turn back on what what’s the purpose of the hands up? Is that just so you can see who’s ready? Or is that hands up? If you you’re in a position to explain what what’s the hands up that for?
Charlie Burkitt 44:18
Yeah, that the hands up is just to say, who wants to contribute at that moment. Now, lower down the school. I would say, Makayla, we have a pretty high insistence on very high levels of participation. So we’re expecting there to be a lot of hands in the air at that moment. And because as I mentioned before, that’s the culture everywhere you do then just see pretty much every hand in the room shooting straight up. And you know, if you think about it, there’s no reason that that shouldn’t be happening because they’ve just turned and said something to their partner. Either they’ve heard something from their partner or they’ve said something, they’ve had a moment to think about it. Really they can be participating in that moment, and it’s good to have them doing that so their hands are shooting up. Now, higher up the school that you get, I will admit that But to maintain that level of kind of enthusiasm from the kids isn’t always possible as they get a bit older and you know, more teenagers. So you might not get every single hand in the air shooting straight up, but you’ll get a good number of kids raising their hand to participate. And that’s your chance then to choose someone to speak.
Craig Barton 45:18
And why, again, this sounds like I’m being a real awkward question here. I’m just fascinated. Why would you? Why the hands up? Why not just kind of cold call people at that stage? What’s the benefit of kind of the kids who want to explain, explain if that makes sense? Why not pick somebody who you know, because then you kind of get into that by a sample again?
Charlie Burkitt 45:38
Yeah, true, I would say that we do, we do cold call as well. So you’ll, you’ll there’ll be a mixture. So sometimes you’ll take a kid with a hand up, sometimes you’ll say three to one and just say a kid’s name straightaway. So you’re right to raise that is a very good point, we will often cold call, I would say that the general rule of Hands Up is there because it drives a sense of energy and participation in a lesson. So what we get is that sense of energy participation of not opting out, but without having to always choose a hand. Obviously, as a teacher, you do what you think is right in that moment, and you just choose a kid.
Craig Barton 46:16
Got it? Perfect. Perfect. Was there anything else about the page you wanted to discuss before we move on to the other one, Charlie?
Charlie Burkitt 46:23
About the partner talk? Yeah, yeah. No, no, I think that was everything.
Craig Barton 46:29
Perfect. Perfect. Right. I’m intrigued by this next one. Oops. Did you say Heads? Heads down was involved at some point, right. Tell me about this one.
Charlie Burkitt 46:36
Yeah, sure. So that’s when this is the kind of blind sampling a blind survey. So what it is, is we’ll say heads down. And the kids know in that moment, because they you know, it happens everywhere. And they’ve been drilled on it since year seven, they’ll put just put their heads on the desk, and then they’ll put their hand on top of their head. And they will just, you’ll read out a few options, it’s a multiple choice thing. And they’ll raise their, they’ll just open their hand for the correct answer. It’s just a way of avoiding the kids seeing each other’s answers and getting a kind of more on a sample of what they think the answer is. Now, just a small tip on this, it can be a good idea, actually to have gone through the options before you get them to put their heads down. Because you might have tried this before, but the kids very quickly go to sleep if they’ve got their heads down for too long. So it’ll be something along the lines of You know, here’s the question, is it x? Is it? Why is it Zed? Write heads down? The first option is also a good one to say, I don’t know, because you want to avoid kind of false positives. So often, my first option is I don’t know, I’m not sure. You know, thanks for the honesty. Okay. Do you think it’s actually it’s widely said, the kids are just opening their fist without making too much noise. So you can see who thinks what without them let each other know. And then you quit very quickly heads up again, and you carry on with the lesson. And it’s a lot of you know, a lot like turn to your partner, I really must stress that this happens very quickly. It’s very punchy, there isn’t wasted time, you know, you just get on with the lesson. It’s a quick sample and you move on.
Craig Barton 47:58
And they assume it’s the kind of thing where, if you sense that, well, you can see from the responses, there’s a lack of understanding in the room, you can stop and intervene. But if everyone seems to know what’s going on you just cracking straight on, but But that’d be how it would play out. Yeah,
Charlie Burkitt 48:11
precisely. I mean, it you know, it’s then up to you, as a teacher, how you want to interpret and use that data, but it just, it just gives you a better reflection of what the kids think. And you know, I know, Craig, you’re someone who’s an expert at multiple choice questions. So you know, the better you can make the options, then the more data you’re going to get from that. Now, of course, in the moment, you might be making this up off the top of your head, and you’re not going to be able to create some fantastic, you know, false options. I’m sure there’s a phrase for that I can’t remember. But you know, so it can be a bit more rough and ready than one that you had maybe written on paper beforehand. It just, you know, and the thing with the thing with all of this whole class AFL that I’m describing all the methods, the thing that they’re all doing it, as I said at the beginning, is they’re forcing the kids to think they’re forcing their kids all to participate. And they are also increasing the sense of energy and kind of oomph in the room. Because of the variation. You know, if if, if pupils are in one moment, turning to their partner, the next moment, they’re grabbing their board to raise it up the next moment, their heads on the desk, they’re just doing different things. And it creates that feeling of variation and kind of urgency and energy that you need in a room. You know, if you’re teaching kids maths all day long, and you know, you have the thing with the kids is that they concentrate so hard, you know, particularly at night, I’m sure this this might be true of all pupils, but particularly it Mikayla, they’re concentrating so hard all day long. And in order to kind of get what we need out of them in terms of energy. We need them to be kind of chivvied along through the lesson and that’s what we’re doing it
Craig Barton 49:43
as fast. Absolutely fascinating this and just just on that multiple choice point. You’re absolutely right, Charlie, when I use diagnostic questions, a major problem of this is you get what I call the tactical delay yourself. Alright. 321 Show me your answers. And I tend to use ABCD cards or mini whiteboards, but you’ll get Kids will purposely just hold fire just so they can see what their mates gone for. And then they go, oh, yeah, okay, well, I’ll go for a as well. But I really liked this heads down as a way just to kind of eradicate the tactical delay all at once. So you’re not getting this by a sample. That was the whole reason that we’re asking the whole class. I love that. And what was the fourth one there? Charlie? So we have the we have the whiteboards we have the partner talk we have the hands down was it was a one more strategy.
Charlie Burkitt 50:23
Yeah. So the last one is what we call call and response. I’m sure some people might have heard of this before. All we mean by that, and Makeda is will ask a question. And then we’ll say 123. And the kids know when they hear 123, then they all shout out the answer. At the same time. Now, where this is at its best is really for one word answers. So often in math, it’s it’s one number answers immuno imagine that the answer is either no to then, you know, you would just say okay, what does everyone think? Is the answer? Or what’s the answer this? And then you just pause for, you would pause for a few moments there because you don’t you don’t rush into the 123, you ask? What’s the answer? Pause for a few seconds, let everyone think you want to build that kind of feeling in the room, that sense that everyone knows, you might be having lots of hands in the air at that point. And then you say the 123. And they all just shout out the answer. Now this is obviously, it’s less accurate data than whiteboards and even heads down. Because it’s noisy, you can’t necessarily hear what every pupil has said exactly. But it does the volume that comes back at you does give you a sense of what the room is thinking and feeling. And you might even if you’re lucky, here, a couple of individual pupils say the wrong thing. That does happen to me, and then you can correct that. And then you’ve got that data. But again, you know, a lot of the main function of that, too, is to make everyone think everyone participating, increase the energy,
Craig Barton 51:54
are really like these Charlie’s. So I love the four options. I really like the points about variety, and getting the energy going in the room and so on. And my final question just on this is, do you see any kind of trend in terms of these four and how you use them in terms of the older kids get you tend to use one more than the other? Or does it deep? Is there any trend in terms of the achievement levels of the kids were with a lower achieving set? You might use one more than the other? Or is are the no patterns like that?
Charlie Burkitt 52:23
No, it’s a good question. I would say there are certainly patterns. I would say I was discussing this with the teacher just the other day that often whiteboards we find are actually particularly good for the lower ability pupils for the lower sets. Now the reason I’m saying that is because you don’t want to end up. So both variability and younger pupils here, you don’t want to end up with a situation where the pupils are writing for really, really long times on their whiteboards unless you are then using it as a kind of checkpoint question. And I will I feel like I have never ending tactics here. What I mean by checkpoint question is that the pupil will show you their board and you’re immediately telling them, yep, that’s great, you’re moving on to an exercise. So that’s often a way I’ll use whiteboards as a kind of checkpoint into an exercise from kind of teach teacher explanation. I would say, as a general piece of advice, if you’re not using it as a checkpoint question, and the kids aren’t immediately going on to something, once they’ve shown you that board, then you don’t want them writing for a long time on their board. Because what happens is, some of them finish reasonably quickly. They hold up their board, and then they are just stuck there waiting for everyone to catch up. So whiteboards work really well for quicker, shorter, maybe slightly easier questions. If you’re if you’re not then bouncing straight onto something else. And that tends to be obviously the lower ability and the younger pupils who were doing those easier questions. Now, you can obviously on boards as well not do a whole question on your board, you know, something that I’ve only just recently got better at is getting pupils to do just parts of question on their board, you know, what’s the next line of working? What’s the next, what number goes here? What unit goes here? And they’re just showing you that? And that keeps everything bouncing along at a better rhythm I’d say than when you get bogged down in. Okay, answer this huge, great question on your board.
Craig Barton 54:15
Fantastic. And with the older kids, then what what would it be more? Which of those four strategies would they would they be using?
Charlie Burkitt 54:20
Yeah, I would say it is the case that the partner talk becomes slightly better as the kids get older and more advanced, because then what the pupils are saying to each other is actually sort of better, you know, it’s more eloquent, it’s better maths, it’s more likely to be right. You know, when you ask a bottom set your seven pupils to turn to the person next to them and to explain something, you know that it needs to be a very simple question, or they’re just going to just say, you know, a load of lovely nonsense, that doesn’t make any sense. So, you know, whereas a top set, you know, your 11 People might genuinely have something quite, you know, mathematically interesting to say to the person next to them. So I would say that partners are Work is one that that increases with the increases in use with with age and ability.
Craig Barton 55:07
It’s brilliant, fascinating this, Charlie. Okay, tip number four, please.
Charlie Burkitt 55:11
Yeah, tip number four. Sure. So this, this is a slightly, this is one again that I’m hoping these are building on each other. So we had behaviour, we’ve got warmth, we’ve got a bit of classroom management in terms of the questioning you’re doing. This one is a bit more to do with kind of curriculum and a bit more kind of your long term vision of what’s happening. Now, for me, the tip is develop systematic revision. Now, this is something that I didn’t do well, in the beginning, you know, I suppose when you first start teaching, you just think, Oh, well, I’ve taught the kids that they’re going to just know it now, you know, and, you know, those of us that have been teaching longer know what, what a fatal error that is, you know, obviously, particularly with younger, and again, lower ability, pupils, because they really don’t remember anything for very long. And that also is also just human nature. You know, I don’t remember things, you know, weeks later if I haven’t been going over it. So we will know about, I assume, you know, forgetting curves, and that that knowledge does just decay over time, and you have to keep coming back to it. Now, the thing about doing that revision is that I have found it in my teaching career really useful to try and make that as systematic as possible to make sure that I’m not accidentally avoiding it or not doing it, missing topics, etc. Now, a big way that we do that at school is through the practice quizzes that I mentioned earlier. So essentially, where the way that works is that in the homework that pupils are given each week, which we call a practice quiz. They do questions that are not only what they’ve done recently, but also a kind of selection of topics from previous weeks, which is then not only in the homework, but gone through in class that Friday. So the teacher has a chance to revise those topics, which essentially makes our Friday lessons a purely revision lesson. It’s revision of that week and of previous weeks. Now, what are the other ways we can do that? Well, I think starters are really also fantastic way to embed systematic revision. We had previously written lots of revision booklets, we’ve actually now moved a little more towards using people might be aware of Mr. Carter maths, it’s actually a bit of a throwback for me, because I used to use Mr. Carter maths in my teach first days and always found it very useful. And we are again, using it at Mikayla now, which we didn’t use to do for starters, because it just generates a really lovely set of, you know, revision questions which you can customise and I do recommend that to people who haven’t checked it out. And that’s, again, a fantastic way of capturing systematic revision. Another way of doing that is just, you know, just trying, essentially to look through your planning and make sure that you’re putting your online homework as well as the bits of revision. Because what you know, I’m not sure how many schools do online maths, I’m sure it’s plenty, and I Haggerty sparks, etc. We’ve been using Haggerty, we’re moving a little bit towards sparks. Now actually, we’ve been enjoying the early stages of that, we will look through kind of our long term plan of what’s happening over the year. And we’ll be putting, you know things from previous terms into that online maths homework. So that is essentially purely revision. And, you know, we’re lucky, I have to say, We are lucky to Mikayla because we have the plan of kind of the full vision of what’s happening from start to end from year seven all the way down to year 11, in terms of what topics we’re studying is all kind of laid out nice and neatly. And we’ve got all previous practice quizzes saved in our shared area. And it’s you know, it’s really well organised. And you can dip into that and you can pull out people’s quizzes they’ve used before and youth revision that they’ve been doing. So you’re just the important thing there is that you’re really finding ways to cover your blind spots. Because as teachers, we all have blind spots we have we have those topics that either we forget about or that we don’t like to teach. And we just need to be reminded what they are, you know, recently I’ve just been when I make my practice quizzes, my homework each week, I’ve just been grabbing, you know, random exam paper and just going through and thinking right, what have I not revised in a while putting questions out of it, you know, and that’s, again, a very simple, but actually pretty effective way to make sure you’re not forgetting stuff.
Craig Barton 59:16
It’s fascinating there. So so just a couple of points on this one, Charlie, the first, I tend to find when I’m lucky enough, I watch hundreds of lessons and I’m very, very fortunate and fat always fascinated by the start of the lesson. Because I that’s often when retrieval happens that’s often when it’s built in whether teachers use the kind of last lesson last week last topic last year framework or use something like Mr. Carter or Corbett’s five a day or something like that. And it’s great for retrieval, if and only if the kids take it seriously if the kids are just like kind of waiting for the lesson to actually start proper. And it just either just copying down the answers or just opting out that they don’t get any of these benefits for retrieval. But I’m guessing that you’re kind of hyping up the importance of retrieval and your weekly quizzes. is how seriously you take those most play a part in that? Well, would that be fair to say?
Charlie Burkitt 1:00:04
Yeah, that’s, that’s absolutely true. Now, one thing I would say is that, you know, it’s another miracle about working at Mikayla, which is that we wouldn’t ever get kids, not just immediately trusting that what we tell them to do is the right thing to do. So, and I realised that’s a bit unique. So, you know, when you work here, I just, I will walk into math classroom, and I’ll say, right, this is what we’re doing. And you know, it just happens, the kids just trust that that’s what’s best for them. And, you know, we’ve built up that trust over time, because they just see that the lessons everywhere are excellent, and they’re learning, and then they trust us. So I don’t, I don’t have to do an enormous sell on why is it we’re doing each thing that we’re doing. But I would say that, you know, if you’re in an environment where you do need to sell that, then I would just be I would be straightforward with the kids. Because, you know, I really do believe that the you know, that the retrieval that revision is, is absolutely fundamental to doing well at maths and you know, from again, from a sort of utilitarian point of view, if you’re just trying to sell it rationally to the kids, they want to do well in their maths GCSE. So this is how you do well.
Craig Barton 1:01:06
Final question on this one. And I’m intrigued by the kind of schedule or the the way, how you choose what topics and questions to include in the retrieval opportunities, either the do nails or the quizzes. Now, I really liked your idea of taking from an exam paper and thinking what you haven’t taught in a while, because what I often find happens, this is another area I’m obsessed with is the questions that tend to be included, or the ones that are either easier for teachers to write or easier for kids to answer. And what I mean by that is, it’s very easy just to write a question on are these two fractions together? And it’s very easy for the kids to try and answer it just with a pen and paper. Whereas construct an angle bisector. You’ve got to get the compasses out the paper, even measure an angle, anything geometry, or even some of the algebra topics like sketch, well plot a table of values for straight lines, you need the grid and the axes and all this kind of thing. So how do you ensure that you don’t have the kind of blind spots to use your phrase that they’re kind of painful topics in the in terms of getting the kids to answer aren’t left out of these these schedules?
Charlie Burkitt 1:02:13
Yes, that’s a good question. This is something that we have spoken about before in our department meetings, because it’s, you know, it’s absolutely true that you know, that those topics that are hard to write or answer are the ones that get avoided, you know, and to a certain extent, I think just knowing that that’s the case does help, you know, knowing that that’s a weakness. And I would go as far as to say that, you know, we’ve not completely solved that problem. Now. Now, what I would say, though, is that, one thing you can do for teachers is to just lower the barriers to entry in terms of revising those topics. One really clean way to do that is to have as we have a huge bank of previous homeworks, that pupils have been given, which include already written into them the structure for those difficult to write questions. So you know, you were talking about graph questions, you know, all of that all the kinds of graph images and tables, etc, that’s already there. And you just kind of left that you copy and paste, and bang, that’s in your homework. So on the kind of teacher writing end of that question, I would say that that’s how we manage that. And of course, there’s wonderful websites like Mr. Corbett, maths, etc, that will, that we do heavily draw from if we’re writing questions that are difficult like that. Now, I would say on the pupil end in terms of, you know, they have to grab a compass or a protractor or tracing paper, etc, that I will admit, that is a tricky thing that we’ve not fully solved, I would say that the best thing we can do for that is that we’re very hot on kids equipment. So we know they always have the right equipment. You know, and that’s the kind of clarity and follow through thing, again, kind of like my first tip that we do equipment checks every day. So we know that they have the compass, they have the protractor, they have the tracing paper, depending of course, on what year group they’re in, they don’t start with that, and year seven, but they over time, they will build up that kind of math specific equipment. And then once we know that they have it, well, then we are free to deliver those questions that require those pieces of equipment. And we and we do huge drives on making sure that, that that’s the case. You know, it was recently the case that we were looking at protractors for your 11. And, you know, we go into a huge amount of detail of how can we roll this out? How can we make sure that every pupil picks up that protractor? Are we following through with the sanctions? You know, how much do they cost in the shop? How are we running it? You know, all those logistical points? Go into making sure that that happens.
Craig Barton 1:04:30
Fantastic. Okay, Charlie, fifth and final tip, please.
Charlie Burkitt 1:04:34
Sure. So my final one, it was a huge one for me actually improving my teaching, it’s to study the teachers you respect. Now what I mean by that is in quite a practical sense, in that, I’m sure. So in Michela, it’s the case that I am constantly and I’m so lucky for this surrounded by world class teachers that I can go and watch at any time and learn from and I’m so So lucky for that, and in the early days that I joined the school, I used to walk around the building, just kind of laughing at how ridiculous it was that I would get to see these kind of, you know, best in the world teaching moments happening everywhere, and you can walk into any classroom, and just the standard is so high, it’s ridiculous, and you could study anyone in the building, and you would get better at teaching. Now, I think it is the case that in any school that you go to, you will also have sort of at least pockets of brilliance happening. And I’m sure that anyone listening will be able to think in their school of, of the teachers that they really respect and the teachers who they think really teach lessons brilliantly. Now what you need to do. And this is so, so important, you need to get into those teachers rooms, and you need to just study every little detail of what it is they’re doing. I used to go into teachers rooms, and we do it over email, we have a sort of feedback system, I would open up, you know, an email and I just be writing down almost a transcript of the lesson of everything that’s happening, I’d be saying, okay, said this said this said this, did this with their body did this with their voice, looked at this kid in this way, tried to portray this emotion explained this thing in this way, use this little memory device. And I would just write the transcript down of what I was seeing in front of me. And that really focuses the mind on how is this person producing this magic in this room, because you can walk into a classroom. And you know, Catherine talks about watching Federer play tennis, you know, it can look like Federer playing tennis or Messi playing football. And you just think, well, they’re just kind of a genius. And this is just sort of this God given ability they have. But but the thing we’re teaching, and this is probably true of sport as well, is that if you study it, if you really think to yourself, what exactly is this person doing to create this atmosphere in this room, to get what they’re getting out of the kids right? Now, you can actually boil it down to a kind of set of almost rules and principles, or have kind of tips that you can follow in your own classroom. And then you go back to your own classroom, and you try and embody some of that. Now, of course, in the beginning, you’re going to be doing a little bit of mimicking act as you kind of find your feet and what style works for you. And then what you find is, over time, you kind of settle into what version of you fits in with all the things you’ve seen. Now, of course, you can’t be messy, you can’t be Federer, you’re not trying to be that person, you’re just trying to take some of the essence of what they do brilliantly, and convert that into how can you produce that into brilliant teaching. And just the final thing I’ll say on that is that then a huge part of that is to try and get those people if you can, to come and watch you teaching and to give you feedback on how you’re doing that. And whether you’re getting it right, because it’s very hard to see yourself through through your own eyes, you know, you can film yourself, that’s a great thing to do. We film ourselves off when we get other people to film us. And you know, I remember in the early days of me teaching here, I was shown footage of myself teaching that was so painful to watch. But were so important in showing me you know what I was getting wrong, and what could I do differently. And, and I’m very grateful for that now, and it’s so important.
Craig Barton 1:08:10
It’s brilliant this, Charlie, just three points on that. So we’ll start with the video because that was one of the things I was going to ask you. So what would this be a regular part of kind of CPD and stuff that Mikayla watching clips of other teachers doing things well? Or is it more kind of on a more kind of ad hoc basis? If you happen to be focusing on something? What role does does video play?
Charlie Burkitt 1:08:31
Yeah, so video does sometimes play a role, I would say it’s not constant, it often depends on what we’re talking about, as a whole school CPD. But it will sometimes be the case that if one of the members of the senior team is presenting on a particular piece of a particular aspect of teaching, that they will have gone around and filmed some of the staff who do that really, really well. And then we’ll all watch it through and we’ll talk about it. And that’s obviously really useful, CPD, as well as, as I mentioned, before filming yourself and seeing what’s happening with yourself. And you know, what we do a little bit of is just filming of each of each other. And then you might run it through with the person that filmed it, and just say, oh, yeah, I really liked how you did this bit, maybe that bit could have been better. And obviously, you know, that can be a bit difficult to watch yourself in the beginning. But if fundamentally, you want to improve yourself as a teacher, then it’s going to be worth it in the end. And that one of the really wonderful things we haven’t Mikayla is just kind of a kind of low stakes feedback loop that’s always going on where, you know, it’s a very open door policy, and people are popping in and out. And, you know, you get friends and colleagues and also sometimes, of course, your line manager popping in and saying, Yeah, I really liked that part. This bit could have been a bit different. What do you think about this? And that kind of constant feedback just keeps you open to your again, you’re kind of teaching blind spots and makes you better?
Craig Barton 1:09:49
It’s great. Yeah, I’ve heard myself film numerous times. And it’s painful, isn’t it? Charlie? You think you do a good job. So you watch yourself on film? Second, second question on this. Um, One of the things I often find that goes wrong with lesson observations from an observers point of view is if you don’t go in with a focus, whereas if if a teacher says to me, I want you to come and watch me, and I want you to watch how I do whole class assessment, or I want you to watch how I model, and then I’ve got a specific focus, but it but it sounds to me like you what you’re doing is more of a general thing. Are you going in there just almost not expect not having this focus? And just try to just see what you can see? Or do you sometimes go in looking for something specific, if that makes sense?
Charlie Burkitt 1:10:32
Yeah, totally. It really depends on what it is that the the position you’re in, in the development of yourself as a teacher, because I would say that if if you’re not working on anything in particular, it’s always brilliant to just walk in and see what’s happening. And then note the general. And I’d say, particularly in the early days of, for me working at Makayla, but for anyone listening, maybe just their teaching career, in general, you do want to be quite general, in your view of warmth, is really good teaching, because you’re not at the stage yet to be very, very specific. Now, having said that, of course, if a line manager or someone you respect has been telling you, this particular element of your teaching isn’t going so well, at the moment, then of course, you want to go and you want to focus on that thing. So for me in the early days, it’s that I was very good. When I when I was teaching, I wasn’t showing a kind of range of emotion. And it was all a bit robotic, I went into full kind of robot, Charlie mode, and that, you know, it wasn’t good. And it was kind of boring. And you know, that’s what other video was painful to watch. Now. I then was obviously going to members of staff who I really respected, I thought were doing a brilliant job. And I was kind of watching them and thinking, right, how are they avoiding being robotic? What is it? What is it that they’re doing? That means that they’re not wooden? And I’m being wooden? So obviously, yes, it’s a good idea to be specific as well. But the general can also help.
Craig Barton 1:11:51
Brilliant, final question on this. And it relates to that, Charlie? So what would be like a concrete thing that from one of these lesson observations, you watch the teacher do that you thought, all right, okay, you made a note of that. And then that was something you could act now whether that’s something to do with stopping being wooden, as you say, or something else? What what will be an example of something that you’ve got from one of these observations? Yeah,
Charlie Burkitt 1:12:11
it’s, it’s almost hard to describe to you because it is essentially my entire teaching persona, I have taken from other people. So it’s difficult for me to boil it down into atoms, when it is all of what makes me up over kind of the four or five years that I’ve been Makayla watching other brilliant teachers, learning as much as I can from them. Now, I’ll just give you a small example of something that, you know, I just thought of the other day, and when I was talking to this teacher, I want saw, you know, a really excellent member of staff. There was a kid who tried it was a it was a lower ability kid tried to say something to the, to the teacher. And you’ve probably had this experience, it just came out garbled, you know, they were trying their best, and it came out garbled. And the teacher said, I know what it is that you’re trying to say, sort of I know what’s happening in your head, but we’re not quite there yet. What is something you know, and then and then moved on to someone else. And I just thought that was a lovely way to in a really warm, loving way, say to the pupil, you’re not quite there, but I get what you’re saying. And you know, I these days, I teach your bottom set class. And I find myself using a phrase similar to that all the time, you know, and that that’s just a tiny nugget of something I saw happen in a lesson. I thought, yeah, I like that. I’m taking that and I’ve kind of been using it ever since. And as I say, all of what I do in Makayla classrooms are atoms of that.
Craig Barton 1:13:42
Lovely, that’s fantastic. Well, they’re five absolutely brilliant tips. Charlie, I’ve absolutely loved those and I’ll throw it over to you just to wrap things up. Is there anything you’d recommend listeners check out whether it’s something from you personally something Makayla related something you think of is of general interest? What what what should listeners and viewers check out?
Charlie Burkitt 1:13:59
Yeah, I would say and that you know, this might seem a bit vain to to keep talking about Makayla and I apologise for that. But I would really recommend the power of culture, which is a book that we brought out reasonably recently, people might not have heard of it. It’s come out you know, in the in between time since you spoke with Danny. So I really recommend googling the power of culture. Catherine burble seeing Mikayla and it’ll it’ll come up and you can buy that you know, anywhere. I would also just say one more time I really, really recommend for anyone listening and thinking, Oh, this this sounds interesting. I’m interested to see what this looks like in practice. I’m interested to see you know, this this miracle of what Charlie’s talking about of these Mikayla lessons do come and visit. It’s really easy to book a visit on our website, you just Google Mikayla school, you can click on on the links that come up pretty much straight away, you can book a visit, you know, come have a chat with me. I’ll be very happy to explain anything that I’ve described, you know, show you around a little bit you can have at all, and I really think it has to be seen to be believed, and we’ll have to get you along as well. Craig.
Craig Barton 1:14:58
I’d love to and well to just sell it Bonus bonus thing here, Charlie. And again, this will come out completely the wrong way but but everyone I speak to and to be fair, it’s a very small sample. I don’t know many people from Mikayla, but but all the teachers I speak to. They absolutely love it right. And you can, you can imagine, to the kind of sceptic it almost seems like a bit of a cult like the cult of Michaela. It’s like you’ve been drugged or hypnotised on something to say you love it. But I get the sense it’s definitely genuine. And it’s just is it just something about the place? Is it the systems? Is it just everything? Because you must have gone in a bit like a little bit sceptical? Like if I went for a job at Michaela with you? This could be a bit weird, a bit odd what’s going to happen here? But then everyone just seems happy. And everyone seems to love it, pupils and stuff? What’s going on? What’s going on?
Charlie Burkitt 1:15:43
Well, I’d say that you know, that there are people who come to Mikayla and they think, oh, you know, maybe this isn’t for me, and they go away, you know, and that’s fine. I would say that’s very far and few between. And I would say that, the thing about it is is that you come and you see it, and you think wow, this is amazing. You know, and I think if you’re coming from a particular point of view, which I think a lot of the teachers in, Mikayla are and what that point of view is, is often that we’ve taught in other schools that are struggling to run a school really well. They’re struggling with behaviour, they’re struggling with a lot of the principles I’ve been describing today, and the place is kind of unravelling at the seams. If you come from that background, and then you come and see what’s happening here. And it really is a miracle what’s happening here, you just walk around the building, and you’re kind of thinking to yourself the whole time, oh, my goodness, I can’t believe that this is really real, but it’s really happening, you know, and there’s that sense of kind of all of it. And then you know, so I came and visited and then applied afterwards, then you work here. And you know, I’m very lucky to work alongside, you know, wonderful colleagues who just, you know, I’m learning so much from all the time that they’re, you know, they’re really fantastic teammates, a lot of them are really great friends of mine. So, you know, it’s also the case that people who work here, obviously want to make a difference in education. So, you know, we want to make a difference in education we want kids to do well, we’ve taught in a school where that didn’t happen, we’ve moved here, and it is working here, you know, it’s it’s, we’re making a difference to these kids lives. And so there’s something very there’s something very intoxicating in that I think, which you know, is probably maybe the the culty thing that you’re speaking about where we you know, you speak to us and we kind of just waxing lyrical about how great this school is. You know, that’s, that’s really genuine. That’s just how I feel about the school. It is a wonderful place to work and it is a place that is changing kids lives. And I think it’s you know, it’s really unique and special, and as I say needs to be seen to be believed, you know, and I’d be very happy to chat you know, I on Twitter or or anywhere or in person if anyone wants to ask me questions about it. It’s at burket CR on Twitter, or as I say, do come in and speak to me and I’d be happy to explain more of my my coat like obsession with Mikayla.
Craig Barton 1:18:13
That’s fairly well the offers there for for for listeners. That’s brilliant. Well, Charlie, this has been absolutely brilliant conversation and fascinating. I’ve learned loads I’ve got loads to think about. So thanks so much for for joining us on tips for teachers.
Charlie Burkitt 1:18:23
Thank you very much for having me, Craig. I’ve really enjoyed it.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai